Los Angeles singer-songwriter Jackie Cohen has been making data for half a decade, releasing her first solo EP, Tacoma Night time Terror, Pt. 1: I’ve Acquired the Blues, in 2018. A local of the San Fernando Valley, Cohen moved to New York to check literature and artistic writing at Marymount Manhattan Faculty, utilizing the poetry she had been writing in lessons to experiment with songwriting. Foxygen’s Jonathan Rado and the Lemon Twigs’ Brian and Michael D’Addario co-produced her debut EP, which was then paired with the Tacoma Night time Terror Half 2: Self-Fulfilling Elegy EP a number of months later. One other full-length, the playful and vibrant Zagg, arrived the next 12 months on Spacebomb Information.
After finishing her tour in help of Zagg, like many people at the beginning of the pandemic, Cohen discovered herself in a precarious scenario. She was going via what she describes as a “horrible private disaster,” and with no solution to struggle the ache, noticed no alternative however to disguise and crawl into it. With out the backing of a label, she began engaged on a batch of songs with no expectation that they might ever see the sunshine of day. She ended up recording her third report, titled Pratfall and launched at present by way of Earth Libraries, with simply two collaborators, her husband Rado and engineer Rias Reed, between October 2020 and January 2021 at Sonora Recorders. The result’s an album directly haunted and bewitching, filled with lush instrumentation and violent imagery that Cohen dives proper into, permitting herself to be spiteful and irreverent and longing and damage. “If I take advantage of my eyes/ I’d acknowledge a bridge that’s been burnt,” she sings on ‘Some Days’, however in that second, all she will do is stare on the flames.
We caught up with Jackie Cohen for this version of our Artist Highlight interview sequence to speak about rising up within the San Fernando Valley, the method of creating Pratfall, the title of the album, and extra.
How are you feeling with the discharge of the album arising?
I’m actually nervous, actually. I’m nervous otherwise than I’ve ever been earlier than, placing music out. It’s been three years, and it feels actually unusual coming again. I believe lots of people have been feeling that manner, like there’s this big hole, and also you don’t actually know what occurred. Earlier than the pandemic began, I used to be form of in excessive gear, issues had simply began rolling for me. And I used to be sort of deciding, “What’s subsequent? I’ve been touring my ass off for a 12 months and a half, the place can we go from right here?” After which every part simply stopped. And attempting to select again up a pair years later, and far more mentally unwell [laughs], feels actually bizarre and I don’t actually know what to anticipate or find out how to really feel about it. However I’m excited to lastly be getting this report out, as a result of once I was making it, I used to be like, “Hell yeah, that is the most effective report I’ve made.” And so it’s this actually bizarre feeling of, I’m very excited to share these songs, however I’m additionally actually frightened of placing it out.
The studio the place you recorded Pratfall was only a 30-minute drive from the San Fernando Valley, the place you grew up. Across the time you had been making the album, and particularly whenever you wrote ‘The Valley’, had you already been reflecting in your upbringing?
I believe the explanation why I felt compelled to put in writing that music at the moment was as a result of I used to be abruptly caught at dwelling for the primary time in a few years. I grew up within the Valley, I went to highschool instantly in New York, and earlier than I used to be completed graduating, I’d already began touring. Once I left New York, I did technically transfer again to the Valley, nevertheless it was extra of a crash pad than a house expertise. I used to be touring a lot for therefore a few years, and there have been all the time like 9 dudes sleeping on the ground, and there was a studio within the yard. And so we’d go for a pair months after which come again for a month, perhaps I’d get a vacation job or one thing, after which we’d be gone once more. And it wasn’t actually till the pandemic began that I needed to sit round and be at dwelling, in my hometown, for an prolonged time period, and contemplate the likelihood that I could also be there for some time.
Proper earlier than it had began, I took a job at a bakery proper across the nook from the place my dad and mom stay, and I labored there for a few months. And I used to be attempting to determine what my subsequent strikes had been. I had these delusions of turning into a baker, I believed I used to be going to go be taught to be a baker at this bakery. However actually, all they let me do was make espresso and work the money register. My dad and mom would present up and fake to be nameless prospects, simply after they had been bored. [laughs] So I went from by no means stopping, being in fixed movement on a regular basis, we had been backwards and forwards internationally so many occasions in simply a few years, after which abruptly I needed to cease and be very nonetheless for a very long time. It was form of the primary time I ended and considered the place I got here from.
You utilize the phrase “dwelling expertise.” Would you say you’re nearer to understanding what meaning for you?
I undoubtedly perceive much more about myself than I believe I believed I did. Not everybody feels this manner, most likely, however I believe lots of people suppose that they did a superb job of, like, not turning into their dad and mom, or someway you escaped the generational curse or no matter, the tradition that you simply’re attempting to get away from whenever you’re actually younger. A bunch of issues occurred over the previous couple of years in my life, and I began remedy, like many have. And you discover out that you simply’re like 99% made up of all of the stuff you thought you’d prevented. You didn’t escape it, you didn’t keep away from it. You’ve made your entire selections all through your total life from a mindset that developed in your childhood dwelling. So this 12 months has been a extremely massive 12 months for me coming to phrases with the truth that all of my selections didn’t come from the place I believed they had been coming from. [laughs] I didn’t outsmart my genes. I didn’t outsmart my childhood.
Given the fictional nature of a number of your lyrics, was it daunting to talk so straight out of your expertise on ‘The Valley’?
All of my songs are just a little bit fictional and just a little bit nonfictional. Not every part that I write is totally confessional, nevertheless it’s all primarily based in actual emotions and actual experiences, usually an amalgamated expertise of many issues that form of add as much as an emotion that’s true. For this music, it’s not veiled in any respect, and I used to be legitimately scared to put in writing a few of it. I form of requested my sister permission to make use of among the verbiage that I used, as a result of a few of it’s direct quotes. And I felt actually frightened of placing it out or displaying my dad and mom – my dad and mom all the time have one thing to say about no matter it’s I’m doing, they all the time provide me their opinion. And I used to be actually afraid of offending the household, despite the fact that it’s a young music. I don’t suppose that I’m being imply, however I nonetheless felt bizarre about straight addressing my sister and my dad and mom. However everybody actually appreciated it. My sister thought it was actually humorous to speak about, you understand, the household nostril job tradition. And my dad despatched me a protracted textual content after the music got here out – my dad’s actually humorous, he texts in lengthy paragraphs, and he wrote this good message about how he thought it was good poetry or one thing. And I used to be like, “Okay, phew. I’m not exiled. All the pieces is gonna be nice.” [laughs]
The road that I really feel like sums up all of it’s, “The entire thing makes me dizzy.” At that time, it feels such as you’re unsure if that entire factor is the previous coming again to hang-out you or the uncertainty of the longer term, or if it’s the current.
It’s actually surprising generally whenever you notice the way you’ve received a physique half in so many alternative cut-off dates in your life. Individuals are all the time speaking about being current, it’s such as you discover your peace by centering and turning into current within the current second. However I don’t know, I really feel like I’ve received my foot caught in an elevator previously, after which I’m additionally simply connected to a few years in the past. That’s how individuals really feel issues and take into consideration issues. It’s not linear. And it may be actually worrying, to really feel your total life abruptly. But it surely’s additionally sort of essential to do it sooner or later.
It’s not stunning to me that that’s one of many extra collaborative songs on the album. All of the totally different artists that you simply introduced in – Natalie Mering of Weyes Blood, Shaun Fleming, and Marly Ludwig, who directed the video – are additionally from the Valley. I’m curious for those who spent any time speaking about your expertise collectively.
The factor about individuals from the Valley is that we by no means shut up in regards to the Valley. [laughs] We’re all utterly obsessive about speaking in regards to the Valley and being from the Valley. It’s such a bizarre little city, it’s a wierd space. And it’s proper under Los Angeles, so we’re additionally actually defensive of the Valley, as a result of youngsters who’re from LA correct hate the valley, just like the Valley’s uncool or no matter. Valley youngsters are like, “Completely not, LA is horrible. We love the Valley.” And we spend all of our time speaking about, like, little eating places and frozen yoghurt outlets that we’re unsure in the event that they existed or not, however like, “No, we each keep in mind that, that was actual.” And, “There’s a little restaurant that additionally had open mics, did you ever go?” “Yeah, completely, I keep in mind occurring the weekends after soccer apply” or no matter. We love our landmarks. We love the expertise of rising up in that bizarre little bubble. It appears nearly outdated. All the pieces within the Valley feels fairly unchanged. And so, getting all of these Valley youngsters in a room collectively to simply speak about, like, a park that all of us went to and doubtless ran into one another sooner or later earlier than we knew one another. It’s very nice to know some individuals who keep in mind these issues.
I believe that the one motive why I’m even in music to start with is as a result of I like having group round me. I’ve been informed a number of occasions, like, “Possibly you must simply work at a summer season camp if that’s actually all you’re after, you simply wish to be surrounded by your pals.” [laughs] However I believe that as a result of every part has form of been like a summer season camp expertise for me, I believe it’s made my data actually enjoyable.
Talking of collaboration, I like that Peanut is credited with “rhythmic bark barks” on the title monitor.
[laughs] It’s so cute. We had been at this studio – Peanut’s really proper right here – and he or she was only a pet, just a bit child woman. She was so small after we received her, I may carry her round in a tote bag. And he or she got here to the studio day-after-day. She’s within the background of so many indie rock data that got here out of that studio, it’s loopy. And there was this massive parking zone outdoors, gated off, and it was proper off of a serious Boulevard in Los Feliz, so there’s all the time individuals strolling by and vehicles and a number of commotion. And he or she’d go on the market and bark, she’d simply be shedding her thoughts. And we couldn’t catch her, she was going via her rebellious pet section. We spent hours and hours over the course of this report simply the three of us triangulating her within the parking zone, attempting to catch her as a result of she would simply be on the market barking her head off. And I believe it’s so humorous that on that music, we didn’t have to control the barking in any respect. She was barking completely in time. And I really feel like like once I inform those that, there’s just a little little bit of eyebrow-raising, like, “Actually, you didn’t shift it in any respect?” No, she was singing alongside. [laughs] She’s gifted.
I imply, she’s been within the background of so many indie rock data.
I do know. She would stand on the board and journey the faders, you understand? She’s an indie rock canine.
I consider you, I’m not going to query that additional. What received you interested by the title of the album, Pratfall?
I believe I made a decision on the title after I wrote the music ‘Pratfall’. I take advantage of that time period in a lyric. And once I wrote that music, I sort of realized that that had been the theme of my life throughout that point, was simply attempting to discover ways to fall down gracefully, or in a manner that will not utterly break my physique. I went via a few years the place I did take a fairly gnarly fall in my life, and I didn’t actually need anybody to know. I didn’t wish to be perceived as being injured or tousled or of getting made a mistake. Pratfall means a number of various things, however for me, at that second, it sort of simply meant attempting to make a foul fall look intentional, so that individuals don’t panic. As a result of individuals get actually upset and nervous after they see somebody get damage. And it’s all the time form of been my position in my life, to be an individual that retains it collectively for everyone. And once I couldn’t do this anymore, I spent a number of time simply form of limping round, attempting to behave like nothing had occurred.
I additionally needed to make one thing good out of it. I used to be attempting to work via it by making the report. And so, I had this concept of like, “Yeah, I fell down on my ass actually laborious, however I’m gonna make it look good.” And that was form of the thesis of the report, like, “Ow, however ta-dah!” So it labored in some methods, and in different methods it didn’t work. In different methods, I simply didn’t are likely to a extremely massive boo-boo for some time. [laughs]
There’s a comedic facet to the pratfall, and within the context of this metaphor, it makes me take into consideration how a number of occasions, when whenever you’re going via that fall, there’s an urge to sort of snort it off. To make it look like a joke, which isn’t wholesome. However the reduction from the precise rise may also really feel humorous in a superb, cathartic manner.
Yeah, generally one thing is simply so tousled that it turns into hilarious. There’s usually comedy and tragedy. I’ve all the time completed my finest to be foolish or humorous in regards to the issues which are worrying in my my life. I all the time attempt to snort it off. And it’s humorous as a result of the pratfall is sort of a slapstick time period, and what was occurring in my life, it did really feel like slapstick. [laughs] It felt ridiculous. It’s like your entire world had simply become a farce. And I believe that these are additionally my least humorous lyrics. For a very long time, in my different data, I really feel like I’ve all the time been form of jokey, foolish about it, and I believe that I did disguise behind humour a number of the time. And it’s humorous as a result of on this one, I used to be simply laughing on the ridiculousness of it your entire time, however the lyrics aren’t very humorous. There’s, like, one humorous lyric.
However there’s something about the best way you sort of ship the lyrics vocally that usually brings a sort of playfulness, nearly a wickedness to it. Since you’ve mentioned that a number of your songwriting is lyric-focused by way of the method, I’m curious the way you went about mapping out among the extra animated vocal performances on the album, particularly on a music like ‘Two Days’.
‘Two Days’ particularly is a humorous instance, as a result of that’s a scratch vocal. It’s the one scratch vocal on the report, and it’s the primary music that we recorded. I had spent probably the most time plunking that one out on piano, and I performed it probably the most quantity of occasions, as a result of I had written it fairly early on within the course of. That one particularly has an fascinating power, as a result of I wasn’t anticipating it to be a closing vocal. I used to be simply laying down a layer in order that we may construct round it. I keep in mind I used to be sitting on the sofa, and Peanut had simply had simply been spayed. She’s a delicate little pet and he or she was sore, and I used to be sitting on the sofa and sort of icing her tummy. Rado got here and arrange a mic so I may sit down on the sofa and maintain her and be icing her, and we simply laid it down actually fast. I believe as a result of I wasn’t actually interested by all of it that a lot, I used to be simply singing the music, we by no means received a greater take of it. We tried a few occasions, and once I began interested by it an excessive amount of, I couldn’t ship it once more.
What I used to be attempting to do for many of the report was sing the songs true to coronary heart, how I imagined saying them. So I believe that they’re animated in form of the identical manner that I speak, and the best way that I speak is like, I speak with my arms and I speak with a number of have an effect on. Once I would go into the studio, I’d heat up in my automotive on the drive there, and I often had like a 15 or 20-minute drive. And I’d take heed to Judy Garland or Barbra Streisand and sing alongside. I like Humorous Woman. I believe that Barbra Streisand in Humorous Woman most likely has probably the most musical affect on me of something. [laughs] She’s so foolish and goofy, and I like that phrase you used, depraved. And I used to be additionally listening to a number of Kate Bush and Tori Amos.
I believe that each one the songs on this report, I’m very a lot speaking to somebody. And so my vocal performances aren’t tremendous vibey, it’s not vibey music. In a manner it’s very conversational, and it’s additionally just a little bit – I don’t just like the phrase theatrical, however I like singers who’re attempting to speak a sense and a narrative via the efficiency. I had a number of emotions occurring once I was making this sucker, and I used to be indignant. There’s a number of anger on this report, and the anger comes paired with just a little little bit of comedy.
It feels conversational, nevertheless it’s additionally confrontational at occasions.
It’s a extremely confrontational report. [laughs]
‘Ghost Story’ involves thoughts, particularly the road, “He tells me I’m a instructor, I inform him he’s a fraud.” Are you able to speak about how that music took place?
[dog barks] Hey, Peach, no barking. That’s my different canine – she’s confrontational. So, ‘Ghost Story’ is the primary music I wrote for the report. I wrote it in December of 2019, and I wasn’t even actually writing for a report but. The report is all about this time interval that started in 2019, the place my life began breaking down just a little bit – properly, not just a little bit, loads, in a number of alternative ways. And I nearly really feel like I wrote that music sort of subconsciously, as a result of it makes much more sense to me now than it did once I wrote it. I used to be going via one thing the place I sort of knew that I used to be in a foul scenario, however wasn’t actually able to admit it. But it surely’s a bizarre second the place one thing unhealthy occurs, I do know that that occurred, however I’m nonetheless in shock and disbelief and I’m simply going to put in writing that off as as a mistake. It doesn’t match the remainder of the story, so I’m simply going to set it apart.
Over time, it’s develop into actually clear to me that I understood extra about what was occurring in my life than I used to be able to admit once I was writing the songs. A few of these lyrics, it nearly appears like me screaming at me to take heed to the content material of these lyrics, and to take notice and react. As a result of I used to be writing these songs which are deeply confrontational, and there’s a number of grief and sorrow and shock and damage. The report is basically a report about betrayal and grief and mourning, and I didn’t actually know that till manner after the report was completed.
Was there a selected second the place you felt that, the burden of the autumn and all these feelings?
I believe that it felt the heaviest when it was completed, and I didn’t really feel higher. There’s additionally a number of pleading or bargaining occurring within the report. I really feel like a number of the lyrics, I’m attempting to make somebody perceive. And I believe that I had all these excessive hopes for this report, like, That is how I develop into understood. And as soon as I’ve defined myself, as soon as I’ve mentioned what I have to say, and I’m gonna say it superbly, and in an fascinating manner, and with probably the most fascinating preparations I’ve ever made – like, look, I’m going to develop as an artist, and I’m going to develop as an individual, and it’s going to be such a strong assertion, every part goes to really feel higher and every part shall be healed and again on monitor, and it’s gonna proper the ship.
And it didn’t. I made this report to repair my life in a number of methods, and it didn’t repair my life. I prefer it. [laughs] I believe it’s a superb report. However I completed it in January of 2021, every part was mentioned and completed, and I used to be proud of it. I listened to it 1,000,000 occasions, I shared it with lots of people and all people appreciated it. And my life didn’t – nothing occurred. And that’s when it felt the heaviest. I had been using on this concept that ending this report was going to place every part again in place. And I noticed it was going to take much more work and introspection than that to get there.
Music can’t do this, regardless of how passionate you might be about it.
Properly, I believe my intentions had been simply sort of deluded. You possibly can undoubtedly do a number of therapeutic in your self via music. It’s among the finest therapeutic instruments now we have, making music and expressing your self. However you’ll be able to’t change issues that occurred. You possibly can’t change the previous. You possibly can’t make another person perceive you. Should you’re gonna heal, it needs to be between you and also you. You possibly can’t depend on any person understanding what you might be saying and that’s going to repair every part. And I believe that I actually didn’t perceive that. So, now all I do all day is get sq. with me. It’s so a lot better than attempting to get sq. with the universe.
Wanting again on the method of creating the album, what are you most happy with your self for?
I’m actually happy with making this report despite the fact that I used to be pretty satisfied I used to be by no means going to launch music once more. After I completed all that touring, my marketing campaign for my final report was undoubtedly wrapped up. I didn’t know what was going to occur subsequent. My life was form of falling aside in a bizarre manner and it was actually complicated. And I used to be working at that bakery and my dad and mom had been coming in to say, “Hiya, miss!” [laughs] And I needed to make a number of selections about my life actually shortly. After which the pandemic began, I’d made all these selections and abruptly the world froze. After which a few months later, I received dropped my by my label. There’s like a complete different report of demos that I made early pandemic that I don’t know if I’ll ever do something with them – I don’t even know in the event that they’re any good. I had made all of those selections that had been fairly laborious to sit down with in frozen time.
I used to be dropped by label, nobody was going to ask me to make music once more. I believed that my profession was over, however I saved writing all of the songs as a result of I didn’t know what else to do. I used to be trapped in my home with my piano and nothing else. I spent a number of the pandemic utterly alone, and I wrote all these songs by fall 2020, once I determined, “Hey, I believe I wish to make this report.” And Rado mentioned, “Yeah, let’s report it.” I believe that the explanation why I appreciated this report a lot is as a result of I made it for no person. I didn’t suppose it was going to come back out. I didn’t suppose anyone was going to listen to it. I made it utterly to style. I like this report as a result of I made it with out the strain of wanting another person to love it. And I’m actually glad that I did that, as a result of it’s the primary time I’ve ever felt like that is precisely how I needed it to sound.
Rado performs nearly each instrument on the report, however a number of the preparations, I’d sit on the ground by his ft with headphones on and he’d have headphones and we’d speak via it. And I’d inform him, like, “Keep in mind this reference? Can we play it once more, however with that in thoughts?” And we’d simply work out each little piece of it till it made me like snort or smile. Each single a part of the report is one thing that I like. So, I believe I’m happy with myself for pouring a lot love into one thing that I didn’t suppose was ever going to come back out. It was simply to make it.
Are you able to share one factor that evokes you about Rado, and likewise one thing that you simply suppose he finds inspiring about you?
I’ve been working with Rado and likewise watching him make data for different individuals for 1,000,000 years now, and I believe that he legitimately works from a spot of eager to make individuals’s desires come true. There are a number of producers on the market who individuals go to as a result of they do a sure factor, they’ve a sure sound, they’ve sure gear or tips that they do, and also you go there since you need them to do this factor to your music. Rado is without doubt one of the solely producers that I do know who needs to see your concept right through. Which is de facto particular for somebody like me, who got here in utterly untrained, nearly no expertise. I didn’t choose up a guitar till I used to be 20. However I appreciated writing, I used to be an English main and I’ve been a poetry main. And Rado is the one individual I’ve ever labored with who didn’t have this power of like, “You don’t know what you’re doing, however I do. So I’m going to give you all these concepts and I’m going to show your lyrics into music.” He’s all the time had this manner of respecting and carving out the imaginative and prescient with me, as a substitute of imposing his personal imaginative and prescient upon it. And in addition, I like his visions. I believe he’s one of the vital playful musicians and writers that I’ve ever met.
I believe that what he likes about working with me is that I’m not primarily a musician. And so, every part is sort of new and thrilling and enjoyable for me. And. I don’t know what I’m doing. [laughs] I imply, I say that now, I’ve been saying that for like 5 years, and I’ve been making my very own data for 5 years. So, yeah, I do know just a little bit extra about what I’m doing now. However, like, I didn’t go to music faculty. And I believe it’s enjoyable for him to work with somebody who has concepts that don’t essentially conform to songwriting type on a regular basis. I believe that after we collaborate, it does have a singular factor.
This interview has been edited and condensed for readability and size.